Skate park for Vine Ave Parkette?

As talk about a skatepark at the parkette continues…

Here our some snaps of the current Skateboard Park at Coxwell Ave and Lake-shore Blvd east. In addition to the skateboarders you can see a non skate boarding couple walking though.

UPDATE: had commenter go all heated in the posts just after posting this – urging me to talk to the skaters. (read his comments in the comments sections) Although I wonder why he got so mad at my posting of an exciting skate boarding event.  Although seems he didn’t have the time to care to go to the event and support these skaters. Note: if you have trouble with a post on thus blog, before yelling at me put your mind to action and feet to ground.

for world class small park skate yards…see

http://www.rhino-ramps.com/2004/uk/index.php?sub=about_outside

 

 

32 Comments

Were these by chance taken from the bushes? I feel like this is almost propaganda AGAINST the skate park…. "look, kids with hoods up, sitting around, loitering…. up to no good i'm sure!"

Guh……. its NIMBY or fear mongering, not sure which

Why not go up and SPEAK to some of these people about the skate park? I'm sure they don't bite…… ask them; How does this park impact your life? Is having the park here a positive? Can you see any reason why residents should oppose a park like this in other areas of the city? Do you have any suggestions for those that see a park as a place that will attract crime, drugs, loitering, etc?

Cmon Robert, put some effort into your posts please.

The were taken while the photos of the park for another purpose were being taken, I simply though getting releases from so many people would be impossible.

I do speak to them, in fact and i didn't write what they said as it would have been that they feel this huge skateboard park is even too small. No they don't bite, but whoever you are you do.
and actually i choose the picture ensuring i had a event tent, a non skateboarding couple strolling though.

This is the worst idea in the history of the Junction. Have you ever heard the sound of a skateboard slapping against the ground after a jump? Whack Whack Whack. That is what residents of McMurray and Vine will hear all… day… long in the summer. Forget sitting out on your patio to enjoy some quiet time. The din from the skaters and the sounds of the boarding will drive you absolutely insane. This is not hyperbole. I'm with Barbara on this one. And mark my words, I will protest any such park until my dying breath. I feel that strongly about it.

Classic NIMBY attitude Barbara…. what do you suggest kids do once their past the baby stage? You ARE aware the Junction is rife with families, correct?

You ever heard a diesel powered train? You ever heard ample traffic during rush hour? Have you ever heard pile driving train tracks, building of condos, etc..

Have you ever…….. ???????????

Brian, save your breath. You'll need it for those dying days when they start pouring the concrete of the vert ramp (google it)

Dude, I know what a vert ramp is. And with the train, you know it's going to be gone in a few minutes. And you know with the pile driving and condo construction that they will be done (eventually). With a skate park, it's going to be twenty four seven… forever. No exaggeration. What's to stop kids from using the park lights to pull front side fakies until the wee hours of the morning? I wonder how much this new skate park idea is being pushed by Sanction on the corner of Pacific and Dundas. People, think about what you want the Junction to become. There are better uses for such a large park than a few skate ramps. Why are they pulling out the baseball diamond? I see kids playing ball there all the time. Fathers and sons playing catch almost every night after work. How about a small soccer pitch? It's a green space. Keep the green. Forget the concrete.

Brian; I take back the vert jab since you obviously have stepped foot on a ramp before (Just to clarify tho, the train ain't going anywhere. Vine ave. backs onto the busiest intersection of east/west tracks in Canada)

A simple noise / usage bylaw or curfew for the skate park can be easily enforced (nothing after 9pm for instance). The police are on Vine pretty much everyday ticketing people turning right off of Keele, so they already have a presence in the neighbourhood and could help enforce the bylaw. The lights can also be set on timers. 9pm = no lights, get out, fun is over.

For Sanction Skateboards, obviously it would increase their sales if there was a local park, thats a no-brainer. To be honest tho, I don't see those guys doing much in the way or organizing. Most of the time they're just sitting in the store looking bored & like they'd rather be out skating.

A small soccer pitch would be great, so would keeping the baseball diamond. But it appears that the re-development of this parkette is skewed to a younger demographic (babies, toddlers & grade-schoolers).

If that is the case, Richard, (with regard to the younger demographic), how is putting in a skate park going to lean toward it? If anyone thinks the skate park is going to be populated by cute little elbow-padded seven-year-olds trying their hand at flips and tricks, they're delusional. The demo for that park will be 12-18 at the very least.

The Skate Park proposed by Sanction was not even close in size or scope to the one the Junctioneer or Brian has pictured. They are not asking for any ramps or concrete pools or anything like that.

They requested a few grind rails, skate benches, this link has a few pictures
http://www.skateproducts.net/

No worries Brian (I guess you missed where I was taking you). The park, now, is being built for children with 2 new play areas. By including a skate park, you create a space for not only the younger children (2 play areas), but also older children (skate/bike/scooter/Rollerblade ramps, etc).

I haven't pictured a concept in any size, I just posted activity from a skate event I tumbled upon because of the community activity taking place.

I agree with Richard the skew is towards those age groups, which scares me as it has always been that way, and felt the impact of it in my teenage years.

but then there was the area behind the Canadian tire store and its hill (Heintzman Place now)

…thats why I like the euro model, I guess you would call them micro skate parks, which exist in so many cities, and having worked by one in Denmark, it fullfills some teens and later adults needs.

Sorry for the poor use of the word pictured. I meant the park in the picture above is not the same scale as the one proposed by Sanction, not that you or Brian envision one that size for Vine.
I think some readers started envisioning a million dollar, acre size park was being proposed when it’s more like a $10,000, 2000 sq/ft park.

I agree, on the site i posted in the post, the company has created dozens of small low impact skate parks.

No matter how small in size the proposed skate park will be, the noise of the crashing skateboards against concrete is the same, ridiculously loud and constant! I agree with Brian and Barbara, this is the stupidest idea ever.

Teenagers are great. Skateboarding is fun. A skate park on a small, quiet, densely-populated residential street is a bad idea and poor city planning.
And yes, despite claims to the contrary, Vine is a quiet street. I have lived here for quite a while and rarely am I aware of any train noise whatsoever. I’m sure most people who have moved to this street in the last 10 years surveyed the noise from the track before they purchases property to ensure that it is something they were comfortable with. The worst offender by far is the PA system from RONA but even that droning babble becomes white noise after a while.
I don’t think that many people on the street have a hysterical fear of No-Goodnick teens or a case of NYMBYism. Regardless whether there are skate rails there, a playground or a croquet court, there will always be some late night, summertime hooting and hollering in the park, and hey, that’s life in the Big City. Or anywhere else for that matter.
The issue here is strictly the noise and more precisely the specific nature of noise that wooden decks slamming on concrete make. This is a much different clatter than ambient sound created by kids playing on the playground or even a basketball bouncing on pavement. It’s a loud, jarring and constant banging that I’m sure everyone is familiar with. There’s a good reason why skate parks, even short rails and ramps as proposed, exist almost exclusively in commercial or industrial areas; ones that are either away from residences and/or in already noisy environments.
As far as ‘NYMBYism’, again I don’t think such terms should be thrown around as nobody is reacting to or trying to create stigma here. It is in fact, a quite reasonable response to not wanting a specifically noisy recreational activity occurring, yes, in ‘our collective back yards’. And that’s the bottom line with this issue – the 20 or so houses that are either directly across from the park or backing onto it from McMurray should really have the major stake in this decision as they are the ones directly and most dramatically affected by activity in the park. Why not ask them and then have the courtesy to respect their wishes.
When it comes to the Sanction skate shop, I think they’re a great addition to the neighbourhood and I hope they can set up some demos during summer events and maybe for the Arts Fest.

Those photos are awesome, what a great looking park. We should be so lucky to have something of that quality.

Actually Mike, Barbra and Brian the skatepark is a great idea, apparently you 3 living in the city is really a stupid idea. I would guess that if you lived in the country away from the skatepark noise it wouldn't be long before you were complaining about the sound of bird.

Hah. Rodger, you still crack me up.

I'd like to direct Mike, Brian and Barbara to the post re: The High Park Burial Mounds vs. the BMXers http://breakingprojects.com/junctioneer/2011/04/04/public-event-high-park-burial-mounds/

If we're kicking the BMXers out of High Park and we're against a skate park on Vine, where do you propose this age group go for their activities? The Junction is a community of families, that's part of what makes it so great! Once the kids get into they're preteens and up, is it no longer a concern to get them out and active? Would you rather they just sit on your couches and play video games about being in the great outdoors?

I agree with Roger. You live in a City. There's always going to be noise, action and kids running and yelling and playing.

My husband and I live next door to a wonderful family who are always in their backyard. We don't have kids, and wouldn't certainly love sit in our backyard and have a few glasses of wine while enjoying a little peace — but guess what? They have two boys who make lots of noise and play hard out there, the parents play thier music and everyone's enjoying themselves. We sit in our little space and get a charge out of the fun they're having! 🙂 The sound of children playing, of any age, is a joy for some people.

My point is; Everyone has to share this world – this neighbourhood, guys. Maybe you were all sheltered as kids, but the rest of us learned how to play nice together.

Why hate on Sanction? It's a clean and proper store and MUCH better looking than the attrocity that was being passed off as a Candy store for so many years.

In terms of noise you guys are lucky that the park wasn't as active for baseball and basketball as some other spots. If it were Christie pits with baseball games going on until 10pm nightly then people would complain about player and crowd noise. If it were active like the bball courts on Harborfront then there would be complaints of basketball noises and seedy types hanging out on the court.

Bottom line is that it's a park and its meant for a mix of people to use. All of the skaters have tax paying parents and have a right to a facility whether you like the sport or not. It keeps them in controled and safe environments and off of private business property.

Fence it in with a cerfew and we're good. Works for Tennis, works for skateboarding.

Well said Natalie… you know what it comes down to? Some people just hate sports. For me I hate downtown Marathons because it ruins transportation for days on ends. If it were up to me they would all be on Toronto Island. But its not, and those marathons do a lot of good in fundraising for the small inconvenience that it puts me though.

Skateboarding is the most descriminated against sport out there. If you have never done it then you don't understand. Without skate parks, skaters are subject to trespass tickets and fines from police, harrassment and fights from strangers (happens all the time), dangerous environments and injury. Parks are a blessing and a great way to work on your skating without having to worry about the outside environment.

But you could never fully understand that unless you were ever a skater. Some of these anti-skateboarding comments read so ignorant. What a surprise… an urban sport in an urban environment.

seems like a lot of the busted glass and condoms in the park that were a staple of saturday mornings when we moved in 7 years ago are gone… basketball playing and profanity at 3 am has also dropped off somewhat… as for a skate park I wonder about the land along the tracks on the north side… beside the arena? More industrial – more appropriate perhaps? the smell of rendered chicken wafting thorugh the summer air… dont get too much more urban than that eh… If I was a teen I'd rather be out late where I was less likely to get busted! There was a pack of people in the park the other day – city folks and contractors – who had the 'plans' and at this point I was told that there will be a new play set for older kids to be built right beside the basketball court. The diamond is going to be levelled and sodded… Once the new play structure is in I am hoping that there is still enough green space for kids to play whatever soccer/baseball/frisbee etc they want. The guy in charge was from the 'capital' department and he assured me that nothing had been purchased and no contracts had been awarded… he also said that the work would start this summer. One frustrating issue is the fact that if the community decides to slow down the process the money will be spent elsewhere… it got me thinking about how planning decisions about the park are getting made… might be nice to get a notice in the mailbox about a meeting to discuss things rather than seeing a bunch of people looking down at a big sheet of paper pointing around the park… a park that is our back yard. Does everyone love the new sandbox? I think it's a disaster compared to the massive 70's vintage kidney shaped one that was there before… the one that had the wooden shelf you could sit on with your drip coffee and be comfortably down with your toddler? happy the crazy old playset met the wrecking ball but somehow it would be nice for the people who live on the street and for those who use the park to get together… anyone have a million bucks to buy the parking lot and donate it to the city? expand the park??? Do people think that another play set beside the basketball court will work? It's going to happen unless someone starts squawking to our new councilor. Has anyone on the boards talked with her about the imminent development?

Hello 185 Vine,

The JRA reviewed two park plan options at hour March meeting and submitted comments to Parks based on member feedback. You can view the meeting online at http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/13235386 Vine Park starts at the 42 min mark.

I’ve been told (I was not at the meeting) that the work being done now is a result of the Vine Park master plan which involved community consultation with the City about 5 years ago. The new sandbox and play area on the East side was the first phase, funding came up so they are now doing the second.

It’s frustrating how long it takes to implement capital improvements but that seems to be how it works.

Hi, I would like to put out a few more points for discussion. I think a skateboard park in the Junction is a great idea and vine park is one of the only parks with space available to be used. Yes, skateboarding does create more noise than some other sports but like some one mentioned above it all depends on how busy the area is with the sport that is being participated in by people in the community. I walk by vine park daily and there are some sketchy people hanging out near the back of it alot of the time (doing drugs/drinking?), having a skateboard park there for the communities youth to go helps to keep that type of riff raff out of our nice parks. I'm not an avid skateboarder but I did alot of it when I was younger and I've spoken with the guys from Sanction about the park (definitely beats that candy store!). We have alot of young kids in the neighbourhood that skateboard but have no place to go so they are skateboarding at the bus stops, abandoned buildings and private businesses which are not good places, especially abandoned buildings. The skateboard park in Vine was proposed as a "temporary skate spot", a place to set up a temporary solution for skateboarders (not a park). The difference is basically the size, a skate spot is very small and skate park is a very large and an expensive operation. The idea was something the size of the basketball court with a few obstacles for kids to use. With it being a "temporary skate spot" it means that if it gets a good response (ie. lots of use) then looking at a different bigger location to build an actual "skateboard park" in the junction should be done. This way if it doesn't get a big response the area (being cement) could be used for something other than skateboarding and there isn't $100,000+ wasted on a skateboard park that wasn't getting used. I see from alot of the comments that people don't like the idea of it in the vine park, give other suggestions as to where then? I'm sure that everyone can come to a compromise wether it is in vine park or in another area. The thing that stands is that the kids need a place to skateboard and I'm glad that people are coming forward with the idea of the skateboard park. I have friends that live in Waterloo and the city created a temporary skate spot at the back edge of the parking lot of a hockey arena withe obstacles to see the response and supposedly it was great because they are currently breaking ground to build a permanent skateboard park. The thing also it appears that some people dont like the look of the park. There are skateboard parks all over the country that have been designed to blend it with urban areas to keep up with the architectural integrity of the surrounding community. There are lots of options, it doesn't have to been this big cement bland area. Here's a link to the builders of the award winning skateboard park, http://www.newlineskateparks.com/About/

Look, I can appreciate calls of NIMBYism. But in my case, backing onto Vine Ave Park, this skatepark (as planned) would literally be in my backyard. We're talking less than 100 feet. I work from home. My office window backs onto that park. I would be hearing this all day, everyday during the summer when I try to keep the windows open to save on air costs. Is there no way on Earth we can put this skatepark in the park behind George Bell arena or Lithuania Park at Keele? They are HUGE parks which back on to nothing. Please… is there any way we can look into this at all? Tonight, three teenagers with skateboards decided to lean against my back fence in the laneway and toke a few joints. I'm not saying this is the way it always is, but I did flash forward to my life after a skatepark was introduce. "Good sesh, man. Wanna toke up before we go home to our parents? Cool. Let's go over in the corner on the laneway." And the smoke wafts through my window. I'm no prude. I've been there, and I'm no NIMBY. But there are bigger parks in the neighborhood that can accommodate such a skatepark, and the residents around those parks will not be as impacted as the handful of houses that currently back onto Vine Ave. Park. This is really all I can say about that. Please, can we just consider that Vine Ave Park is not the best park for a skatepark?

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